Teton Realty Blog

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What I’ve Learned About Ice Dams

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Every Winter this comes up. As a Realtor and property manager, I’ve had plenty of firsthand experience here. I think the best way to categorize this article is to break it into two parts; prevention during construction, and repair measures to address ice dams that form after construction. First, let’s go over what an ice dam is, and why it occurs.

Ice damming, what is it, and why does it occur?

Most homes have a roof overhang that extends behind the house. The area that extends beyond the house is not heated whereas the area directly above the living area of the home will inevitably realize some heat loss. As that heat rises into the attic space above the ceiling and insulation, it ultimately reaches the bottom side of the roof which will begin to melt the snow on the roof. The water then begins to travel down the roof. As it reaches the unheated portion of the roof overhang, it re-freezes. This is where an ice dam is formed. The longer this occurs, the further the ice backs up towards the heated portion of the roof, possibly finding an entry point for water into the living areas of the home.

New Construction

It’s impossible to predict where or how an ice dam is going to form. However, we can take some preventive steps, and it’s best to pay special attention to the North side of your project where the roof will see the least amount of sun to help melt away snow and ice. The first line of defense is going to be proper soffit and roof ventilation. If you can prevent the residual heat from warming the underside of the roof and melting snow, we can minimize the amount of ice that will form it on the unheated areas of the roof. This can be done a few different ways.

Ventilation

Usually a proper roof ventilation system will include soffit vents on the underside of the unheated roof overhang portion of the roof as well as roof vents near the top or highest point of the roof where rising heat can escape. Normally your insulator will install what are called “baffles” which prevent the insulation that will be later added from covering the vents in the soffit or roof overhang. It is absolutely key that you have this section inspected before and after insulation (if possible) to ensure that the baffles are not crushed or moved during the insulation process, thus covering the vents and not allowing airflow. I have also seen additional venting in gable ends and even power vent fans to help push the warm air out of the attic cavity. Understanding that not all roof designs have an attic, it doesn’t necessarily mean that the roof cannot be ventilated. I have built shed roof style homes and installed plywood to create a small gap the full length of the roof from the bottom end all the way up to the ridge to add a layer of air ventilation just as a precautionary measure, even on a roof that would normally slide snow such as a metal roof.

Insulation

Insulation is one of those sensitive topics with me. I have my own opinions on insulation types and where they are best applied, but I’ll save that for another article. If you do have a home design with an attic, it’s more affordable than you might think to add more insulation than the building code requires. If we can slow down the heat loss into the attic, we can slow down how much snow begins to melt on the underside of the roof. While the code does require substantial insulation in roofs in our area, there’s good reason to consider overdoing it if you’re going to upgrade something.

Ice and water shield

Most builders will install a waterproof membrane from the roof’s edge beyond the habitable space in the house. As the water backs up, it will be stopped by this impermeable layer, or at least that’s the idea. With every construction job that I’ve been involved with, I’ve opted for ice and water shield on the entire surface of the roof. Yes, this is an added cost. However, ice dams aren’t the only things that cause leaks and the extra insurance might be something to consider.

Existing Construction

The more time you spend in Teton Valley the more you will realize that not every winter is the same. One season might not create any ice damming issues while the next creates significant problems. It’s all about freeze/thaw, temperature, sun, snow load, the list goes on. That being said, almost everybody is going to experience an ice damming problem if they form a long-term relationship with Teton Valley. If you do, I think it’s important to look at causation and repair options.

What is causing the ice dam?

We can go back to the new construction measures to see if they were properly applied with the existing construction. Usually attic spaces are accessible (even though it isn’t very much fun) and those insulation baffles, assuming they exist, can sometimes be inspected after the fact. If one finds that there is no attic ventilation or poor ventilation, roof vents or gable vents can be added after the fact relatively easily. It’s a great time to assess the damage in the Winter months, and be prepared to make repairs in the Summer months when it is safer to do so.

Remedy Option 1, Vents

As mentioned above, roof vents can be installed after the fact. This can be great option to help expel some of the heat out of the attic space. In extreme cases where ventilating the existing roof is impossible, there have been projects (even locally) that have built a replacement roof on top of the existing roof that is ventilated to provide that much needed air gap.

Remedy Option 2, Heat cable

Sometimes heat cable is a necessary evil. We tend to avoid it or turn it off because of the cost, but if it saves us from expensive damages inside our home, it may be the only option available. Heat tape comes in many forms from budget DIY to professionally engineered and installed systems. Further, these systems can be installed with a simple electrical outlet, or hardwired into a 220 volt breaker. The severity of the issue is usually an indicator as to which direction might be best. Either way, remember to extend the heat cable beyond the unheated portion of the roof to above the heated portion for the most effective results.

Remedy Option 3, Shoveling and/or Steaming

Roof shoveling (be sure to consider someone who is insured) can be an easy and effective remedy, especially when an issue is discovered mid-season. In addition, roof steaming is an effective option to remove stubborn ice dams without damaging your roof, but it’s usually an expensive one.

Obviously I am a Realtor, not a builder. Check with your contractor on these ideas, and be careful!

What’s it cost to build a house around here? (2022)

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I’ve always got to start with my typical disclosures. I’m obviously not a builder, but I work closely with builders and stay in touch with customers that have projects in the works. I always tend to have a few projects going on myself, as well.

I wrote an article back in 2015 with information about my experience with the cost of construction. As you probably already know, things have changed quite a bit since then. In addition, a good portion of my 2015 project was sweat equity. I later constructed another small home in 2017, and I should have updated this article then as I relied more heavily on subcontractors, though I acted as the general contractor in both circumstances. I later again acted as my own contractor during an extensive remodel of my 1980s home, and I am currently closely involved in a project with a general contractor.

Getting back to the nuts and bolts, the cost of construction has gone up pretty dramatically. Obviously there are a few things at play here including material costs, supply shortages on both materials and labor, not to mention the cost of living which has changed pretty significantly since 2015. This definitely trickles down to the cost of labor as well. To have some fun, I looked at some of the material costs from my previous projects. I decided to use 7/16 OSB or sheeting as my “gold standard”. That may not be totally accurate across the board for all lumber and materials, but it’s a good indication as to what’s going on.

7/16 OSB, 2015-2022
2015: $9.22
2017: $14.71
2021: $23.99*
2022: $60 +/-

Materials
To be fair, that 2021 price is… not fair. If you were watching, you might remember there was a lumber bubble that popped in the Fall of 2021, and we all thought that may be a tipping point on material costs. That assessment was incorrect, as things jumped right back up to a high point, and continued that trajectory. The interesting point was how much that drop in lumber prices could impact a typical 2000 square foot home. The answer (in rough numbers) was about $15,000. Obviously some great savings in that scenario, but it’s probably not going to make or break the bank in the scheme of a large (or even a small) project. When we look at all material costs, you can see where it all starts to add up. Virtually everything is in high demand and is experiencing some sort of shortage. Appliances, tile, drywall, copper, plumbing materials, whatever. When you add it all up, it’s pretty significant.

Labor
As mentioned, the cost of living and therefore the cost of labor trickles down to costs; and can have a pretty significant impact on them. If a concrete company’s cost of labor goes up 20% because the cost of living is up 20% (realistically more) the contractor can’t just absorb that cost. Here again, concrete, framing, roofing, mechanical/electrical/plumbing… the list goes on. The biggest contributor to the issues described?

Supply and Demand
Supply of rental homes is extremely low. Supply of existing homes for sale is low. Materials, labor, contractors, everything is in low supply. Demand? You guessed it, through the roof – pun intended. While the lack of supply has a direct impact on the cost of materials and labor, there are indirect costs as well. If I can sell my used car for 10% more than I paid new, I am absolutely going to do that. In addition, I think there is likely some price gouging going on out there. Regardless, the bottom line is that people in small communities make their living when the economy is doing well. I’m not just speaking for myself when I talk (or think) about slow times.

What gives?
It’s interesting to read articles about economic cycles and what seems to be a universal opinion that times are different in terms of a potential real estate recession. Supply is still extremely low today. However, while leading up to the recession in the mid-2000s, supply was out of whack. Regardless, I’ll never make a steadfast economic prediction – and I’ll never promise that a recession won’t happen. That said, I do believe that rising interest rates will create some affordability issues (who am I kidding, there are already pretty significant affordability issues) that will tamp down the demand for construction which is already expensive. I also believe that notwithstanding prices rising so quickly, I do believe the pandemic created some shelter, keeping things in control because costs increased so significantly. With these changes in our economy, we can only hope to see some relief to balance the market. If this occurs, it will undoubtedly help stabilize some of these crazy construction prices.

Okay, I’m done blabbing about the stuff you probably already know.

So what’s it cost?
I didn’t reread my article, but I recall building my first project pretty affordably, keeping in mind that I did so much of that work myself. Costs obviously went up in 2017, and I do remember it getting more difficult to line up contractors – there was quite a bit more construction happening then. A few other considerations, some builders calculate a basic garage in their square footage cost estimate and I think you could accomplish that with the numbers below assuming modest construction, keeping in mind that Teton Valley’s modest construction tends to be a little on the “higher end” side of things including better heating systems, insulation, etc. Most of the contractors here use 5/8 drywall, 12 gauge wiring, and so on.

The Numbers

2015: $250/SqFt
2017: $310/SqFt
2022: $420/SqFt

Roofs, Property Value and Peace of Mind

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A family friend reached out a few weeks back about the potential impact of a certain roofing system compared with another and how it might impact the value of their property down the line. It resonated with me as I am currently in the process of replacing the original roof on my 35-year-old home. My own experience has been somewhat tempestuous as we struggled with replacing an uncommon roof type and battling some significant damage we uncovered along the way. My home is an old family cabin that my wife and I have renovated over several years, and the old roof was an uncommon stone coated metal cold roof. We don’t have any plans to sell, so resale wasn’t on our minds. We wanted something that would blend in with the forest setting and perform well for a long period of time for the reasons mentioned above. Ultimately, we chose a very thick, shake-like asphalt shingle. We simplified the roof rakes and beefed up the Boston ridge to create a slightly more modern look, which we are happy with. In our case, we probably did increase the value of our home, and we are happy with the look of the new shingles even though we were concerned with it.

Anyway, when comparing the two roofing systems my friend was considering I didn’t feel one would significantly change the property’s value. In their case neither option would have been unusual for the home, but one was clearly more expensive. It was difficult for me to answer whether or not they would see a return on the investment for the more expensive roofing system. To answer the question, this is where I shifted focus to the overall picture. Sometimes certain home improvements, materials used or construction methods do not have a direct impact on a property’s value, but can when viewed in conjunction with the rest of the home and it’s finishes. I distinctly remember an incredible custom home of which the owner spared no change or effort throughout, but installed vinyl floors which was (honestly) just his preference. However, when helping him with the sale, it was a sticking point when comparing the finishes through the rest of the home on such a high dollar listing. Similarly, I remember walking through a property where the owner did some light renovations in anticipation of a sale. The fresh paint was great, but the Viking dishwasher felt odd to me. Yes, it was undoubtedly expensive and was certainly a talking point, but it didn’t fit well with the rest of the finishes and I don’t think that homeowner saw a return on that investment. The moral of the story, underdoing it and overdoing it are both bad, but in different ways.

Okay, if you’re still reading, on to the peace of mind part. I have probably written about this in other articles, but I wanted to touch on a few other considerations, particularly as we see new construction ticking up.

1) Snow slides. In my case, a metal roof was not an option. I have a wraparound deck that the snow would absolutely destroy in the event it were to slide off. My old roof never slid, and I hope my new roof never slides. In other cases, you want the snow to slide. Low roof pitches or shed roofs can be a good example.

2) Ventilate! I can’t think of very many circumstances where I would not recommend installing a ventilated or cold roof to help mitigate ice damming. This will usually include some form of screen or vent along the roof soffit and a vent in the gable ends or along the ridge of the home.

3) Ice Damming. Believe it or not, we get snow and ice up here. I believe code requires ice and water shield along the roof edges and valleys, but I usually suggest putting it everywhere, if you can. There are better ways to prevent ice damming as mentioned above in the ventilation section, but make sure you are protected in the areas mentioned and it never hurts to have the extra protection, particularly on roofs with a lower pitch.

4) Pitch. Speaking of pitch, be careful with this one. The modern, low sloping or flat roof systems are becoming more and more popular, but they can pose significant challenges when it comes to snow accumulation and ice damming. I’ll never forget all of the struggles I’ve had over the years with commercial building management where flat roofs with drain systems are common. The moral of that story, make sure you have heat tape in those drains, and monitor them closely. It doesn’t take long for these to plug up with ice creating a swimming pool on top of your roof.

As a final bit and disclosure, I’m a real estate agent, not a roofer. I have experience with some of these things, but am in no means an expert when it comes to the construction types and methods best for your situation. Always consult with your contractor and local roofer, and keep in mind our unique climate when it comes to architects. People tend to bring their local architect with them from dramatically different climates which can often lead to incompatibility with local contractors and issues with construction methods down the line.

Manufactured vs. Modular, What’s the Difference?

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With building costs continuing to rise, the popularity (or at least the idea) of prefab homes also continues to grow. As a result, I have seen an increase in interest for land that will accommodate these types of homes. However, there seems to be some confusion as to what “these types” of homes are, and what the differences are between manufactured vs modular homes. This confusion has lead some subdivision homeowners associations disallowing anything but stick-built, and has made it difficult for those interested in anything other than a stick-built home to find suitable land.

I’ll save the difficulties and challenges finding suitable land for another post, but I would like to dive into the differences between these types of homes to help shed some light on the issue. Note that some of this is subject to my own experience and opinion. Also, the terms associated with the different types of homes tends to vary by region.

Manufactured: This can be confusing because a manufactured home is prefabricated just like its modular counterpart. Manufactured homes, however, are built in compliance with FEDERAL HUD manufactured home construction and safety standards. They usually have a metal frame which serves as the floor system, as well as the frame for the transportation system. They then can be set on a permanent foundation, but don’t necessarily have to be. These types of homes have transportation size limitations. This is often where you hear the phrase “double wide”, meaning two finished portions of the house that are put together on one permanent foundation at a later date.

Modular: As defined by the State of Idaho division of building safety, a modular building is any building other than a manufactured home that is entirely or substantially prefabricated or assembled at a place other than the building site. I would personally add: Modular homes have construction standards set by local, as opposed to federal regulation. The easiest and best explanation I have seen is that modular homes cannot be moved. It is feasible that a manufactured home could be split, or picked off its foundation, moved to another foundation and placed or reassembled. (Note that when I say “cannot be moved” I have to be careful here, knowing that even stick built homes can be moved.) Sometimes modular home companies create their own category of homes such as a “phased built” or “systems built” to further differentiate and separate their product from a manufactured home. However, in my opinion, these are one in the same as modular. A modular home doesn’t have to be completed in major sections. It could be completed in wall sections and assembled on a permanent foundation. They would normally be transported on a flatbed trailer as opposed to a trailer integrated with the structure.

For further clarification; in my opinion, the following are all forms of modular homes, all of which would be subject to local building codes and inspections which would later receive a standard certificate of occupancy:

– a tiny home built in a factory or shop and delivered to a permanent foundation that conforms to local building codes and receives inspections similar to those required for stick built homes.

– a home constructed in small sections (such as individual walls) potentially with pre-installed siding, floor systems and precut materials installed on a permanent foundation.

– a “kit” home delivered in panelized sections installed permanent foundation.

RV’s: To make matters more confusing, we are beginning to see a rise in popularity of RV style tiny homes that can later be converted to permanent structures. Again, much of this is all subject to local and federal laws. A company building a custom home classified as an RV with wood siding and residential windows would need to comply with Transportation Department requirements in order to be legally transported, but this type of dwelling (RV) may have challenges in obtaining local zoning approval. For example, RVs can often only be parked in one location for storage, and if they are going to be used as a dwelling, can usually only be done so temporarily. In addition, parking an RV may require a special permit.

Idaho Division of Building Safety information for Tiny Houses, Manufactured Homes, Modular Buildings & Recreational Vehicles can be found HERE.

To be continued: Suitable land for manufactured or mobile homes and RVs.

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